tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4522018539311056682.post7918973520069707743..comments2024-03-27T01:28:28.346-07:00Comments on False Machine: I Am The Lorepjamesstuarthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13288777018721199748noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4522018539311056682.post-39410512342381869162020-01-07T02:29:23.395-08:002020-01-07T02:29:23.395-08:00my example is crap and I still can't think of ...my example is crap and I still can't think of a better one, but if I was going to make a better one:<br />World Building : <br />A Thing Exists ; It is interesting in itself and somehow some of that interesting is wider connections are suggested. World building is how you well you evoke these suggestions.<br />Lore:<br />A Thing exists: it maybe or may not be interesting in of its self , but the primary intended interesting aspect is the connection to other things.scrap princesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01278801560026111482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4522018539311056682.post-63917404085995196592020-01-06T14:24:28.390-08:002020-01-06T14:24:28.390-08:00Er. I like Lore. Just enough, not too much.
A...Er. I like Lore. Just enough, not too much. <br /><br />As a GM I wrote a 3 page thing about the world my longstanding campaign was set in. And then players added a little to it over time. Now its 5 pages. That might be too much. I hesitate to give it to new players. <br /><br />What I like (and my players do too) is the set of mysteries about the world that are present from the begining and then slowly are revealed as we play. We've had some good moments: "WTF! Saint Ekaterina was actually the Exiled Witch Queen in disguise the whole time?! We should have known something was off, no Saint chainsmokes like that"...or "the party of war is all vampires - so literally dead white men are behind the war machine! we should have known!" I only get that stuff when I plan ahead and lore is part of it... I know it's manipulative. Narrative is manipulative...but w/o some narrative the game just feels like a bunch of random tables.<br /><br /><br />Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08057182508701974364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4522018539311056682.post-63873100279523667612020-01-06T08:28:03.574-08:002020-01-06T08:28:03.574-08:00Blades in the Dark is Fate, but with enough Proced...Blades in the Dark is Fate, but with enough Procedure tacked on to the means by which you interact that it *almost* doesn't feel like a Fate storygame. It's worth a read just for the way it approaches narrative structure. I don't know if I LIKE what it does, but I found it very interesting.Diaghilevhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08352692362913914338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4522018539311056682.post-20802670094064961582020-01-05T11:18:24.404-08:002020-01-05T11:18:24.404-08:00Thos I know about stopped roleplaying, actually.Thos I know about stopped roleplaying, actually.Vagabundork (Chaos Magick-User)https://www.blogger.com/profile/10945302216491852035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4522018539311056682.post-19294188897668618582020-01-04T03:48:23.289-08:002020-01-04T03:48:23.289-08:00Its interesting because I'm almost maniacally ...Its interesting because I'm almost maniacally obsessional about avoiding the use of the word 'story' or 'narrative' in my own work, for a bunch of reasons, but at least one of them because of its linear nature and what I perceive as the power issues when you cross it over with Roleplaying gameplaypjamesstuarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13288777018721199748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4522018539311056682.post-67984842823184869592020-01-04T03:45:31.849-08:002020-01-04T03:45:31.849-08:00What do you think happened to all those other peop...What do you think happened to all those other people? Are they still out there somewhere playing these lore-heavy games?pjamesstuarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13288777018721199748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4522018539311056682.post-75892323747577760762020-01-04T03:36:26.472-08:002020-01-04T03:36:26.472-08:00Thank you K, that was interesting.Thank you K, that was interesting.pjamesstuarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13288777018721199748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4522018539311056682.post-42171563728696297002020-01-04T03:31:41.591-08:002020-01-04T03:31:41.591-08:00"the worldbuilding of fiction only greases th..."the worldbuilding of fiction only greases the wheels of its more insidious cousin, political worlbuilding" - I think this is an essentially stupid and untrue statementpjamesstuarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13288777018721199748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4522018539311056682.post-80113078582606578112020-01-04T03:27:42.951-08:002020-01-04T03:27:42.951-08:00Eh, I'm half way through that right now. Harri...Eh, I'm half way through that right now. Harrison is half right. He's good on dependency and the dangers of worldbuilding, the 'bad' stuff, but he would have nothing to say about Wilro Hood, or about whether Wookipedia is a good thing or a bad one. He takes a negative position and hardens it into dogma.pjamesstuarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13288777018721199748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4522018539311056682.post-35776081931093436692020-01-04T03:14:17.316-08:002020-01-04T03:14:17.316-08:00They have a money-off copy of that in my local sho...They have a money-off copy of that in my local shop but I have SO MUCH stacked up to read that I get Emotions when I think about buying more books.<br /><br />If its storygamy, good chance I might not like it for some complex reason.pjamesstuarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13288777018721199748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4522018539311056682.post-90292492192559232752020-01-04T03:11:33.703-08:002020-01-04T03:11:33.703-08:00That OSR background-through-play-only does seem a ...That OSR background-through-play-only does seem a really strong theme or trend, though I have no real idea where the culture is at now.<br /><br />Its interesting because OSR people often do like lore, or at least, information about the world, but that theme seems to suggest they only like it through play, exploration and direct interaction.<br /><br />This feels like a Brendan Survey in Vitro;<br /><br />You recieve this information<br />- From a book<br />- Through conversation<br />- From overhearing a goblin in a dungeon<br /><br />pls rate each by its acceptabilitypjamesstuarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13288777018721199748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4522018539311056682.post-66904758433646083422020-01-03T15:55:37.417-08:002020-01-03T15:55:37.417-08:00Lore makes me feel like I need to know certain fac...Lore makes me feel like I need to know certain facts in order to enjoy a story. Worldbuilding makes me interested in the story being presented. Patrick I feel like your books do a good job presenting all kinds of 'intellectual lego.' I never feel like any of it is 'canon' or 'real.'Lindenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15872374689408917104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4522018539311056682.post-73857796551980100182020-01-03T12:35:00.088-08:002020-01-03T12:35:00.088-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Prediksi Judi Bola Terpercaya 2019https://www.blogger.com/profile/00685172303330089373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4522018539311056682.post-39383473865876414112020-01-03T12:26:02.251-08:002020-01-03T12:26:02.251-08:00"We want to be recognised, more than anything..."We want to be recognised, more than anything. And I think that’s what people are really selling on Kickstarter or Patron or through Parasocial Youtube relationships, more than any particular product and more than any particular ideology, its recognition. The sense that you have been seen. That you are valid."<br /><br />I haven't put it into words but this is, I guess, the reason I don't back up patreons nor watch rpg youtubers or read game reports: I don't care about other's game world, I only care about mine.<br /><br />When I started playing Vampire back in '98 or so, I was the only one who read the book, all my friends only read their clan descriptions and their power description, , but they found the internet and that it contained all these crazy clans which were not on the book and they all wanted to play mafiosos, assassins, and the llike, while the book we had only covered Camarilla. They started reading about the expanded vampire lore and I didn't, I had a lot of work preparing adventures, and in the end we didn't really play vampire: they knew lore, I knew rules; they though vampire society rules were above game rules. It was awful.<br /><br />Then I started playing AD&D with a GM who knew everything about Forgotten Realms and expected us to read the lore. I didn't care, I didn't want homework. I only wanted to kill orcs and explores jungles. It didn't work and the group splitted.<br /><br />It was not until I found the OSR that I started caring about RPGs again. You don't have to learn lore, you only need to understand what the products is about. You can use Silent Titans in the same campaign that Veins of the Earth if you want to. You don't have to learn how these two are related, that information doesn't exist. You can come up with something if needed, or you can simply drop both things in your world, no explanation.Vagabundork (Chaos Magick-User)https://www.blogger.com/profile/10945302216491852035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4522018539311056682.post-44733414357394150232020-01-03T10:38:32.759-08:002020-01-03T10:38:32.759-08:00Ravenloft, trying to encompass all kinds of horror...Ravenloft, trying to encompass all kinds of horror tales from mummies to Frankenstein to 'Exorcist' had a structure of domains, with unified idea about Dark Powers and imprisoned lords, even with mechanic to account for different techlevels, but for some reason, this structure didn't work for me, maybe because each domain was so contained and static.<br /><br />I think that lore/details might be useful when they either define something in evocative way, or re-contextualize/reconnect something seemingly known before and/or banal in interesting/elegant way. In a way it is like math, when you see equations transform in unexpected way with 'aha!' moments when it finally clicks into answer.<br /><br />My experience is that as I experience - and especially when I play - from evocative fragments, I involuntary fill voids, give meanings and connect pieces, sort of as by-product. And after such process it is very difficult to discard what was created and start ablank and anew, so all this built-on becomes details, and if there is lot of it, it unavoidably becomes suffocating after a while. The 'validity' of splatbooks and details might be because they gives some common ground details for people going through the same world/universe, as in a way to synchronize their experience a bit, but just like personal experiences, it also becomes suffocating as it goes.<br />(additionally, some people seek the mastery and accumulation over setting information because they might see it as a way of power, the same way rules-lawyering is)<br />My rule of thumb is that for each two parts knowledge/information/details there should be no less than (and preferably more) one part of unknown. <br /><br />I cannot say much about recognition part. The effect of outside recognition/acknowledgement is both intoxicating, invigorating and depowering if it vanishes after being given, so I view it as a some kind of society-based drug, with induction, high peak and withdraw effects respectively.<br /><br />I do care about Eldritch Foundry world(s) you write.Kyanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12992025061183651850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4522018539311056682.post-81319284778323878262020-01-03T10:16:57.502-08:002020-01-03T10:16:57.502-08:00This may be one of my all-time favorite posts of y...This may be one of my all-time favorite posts of yours, Patrick. I am, like, 70% bitterly against the cultural fixation with "lore" for pretty much all those reasons and more, but as a Dungeon Master and a fantasy fan, I'm also inevitably drawn to it myself.<br /><br />If you've never seen it, this video essay is the best I have ever seen on the subject, and I revisit it quite frequently: https://youtu.be/mA6MQHNM2yEDwizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17255968459773708115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4522018539311056682.post-64239994910460320622020-01-03T10:09:19.433-08:002020-01-03T10:09:19.433-08:00You should take a look at how Blades In The Dark d...You should take a look at how Blades In The Dark does lore and world building if you haven't. Sounds like what you're getting at here.GarretFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02322325389688747488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4522018539311056682.post-85927200420816217822020-01-03T08:38:32.371-08:002020-01-03T08:38:32.371-08:00I like the lore/worldbuilding distinction. Maybe i...I like the lore/worldbuilding distinction. Maybe it could be roughly summarized as linear/nonlinear or dependent/independent. <br /><br />Some musings:<br /><br />Glorantha stuff is at its best when it's worldbuilding: a single culture or region can be explored in depth, and while there might be the odd allusion to a different kettle of fish (e.g. the Lunar Empire, Dragonnewts, Trolls) you can usually let it remain mysterious if what you're really talking about is your specific tribe of Orlanthi raiders.<br /><br />Talislanta is another old setting that does this pretty well. You see a cool dude in the book and you can figure out what he's all about and how he fits into the local context pretty easily. There might be the odd allusion to other regions or weird types of magic or whatever, but basically you get the context you need by reading one little self-contained nugget. <br /><br />Perhaps this distinction is related to the OSR/sandbox idea of restricting early prep and play to the strictly local context? You're level 1, you're in a village, here are the woods, here is the mountain, that's it. Go. We will discuss the Empire of the Dark Lord and the true nature of Spirit Magic when we get there, or never.Picadorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01244353406711565712noreply@blogger.com